Jag Lamba: 0:03

Being on the forefront of sustainable supply chains enables companies to have a competitive advantage, with their customers, have access to better talent because people wanna work in companies that are, you know, more sustainable, more aligned with their values, right? And will have access to more finance options. And, you know, what that translates to typically is better financing terms. So you lower lower cost of capital. So I think the ROI is overwhelmingly positive

Tom Raftery: 0:36

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, the number one podcast focusing on sustainability and supply chains, and I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Hi everyone. And welcome to episode five of this sustainable supply chain podcast. My name is Tom Raftery, and I'm excited to be here with you today, sharing the latest insights and trends in sustainable supply chain. Before we kick off today's show, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to all of this podcast's amazing supporters. Your support has been instrumental in keeping this podcast going, and I'm really grateful for each and every one of you. If you're not already a supporter, I'd like to encourage you to consider joining our community of like minded individuals who are passionate about sustainability and supply chains. Supporting the podcast is easy and affordable, with options starting as low as just three euros or dollars a month. That's less than the cost of a cup of coffee, and your support will make a huge difference in keeping this show going strong. To become a supporter, you simply click on the support link in the show notes of this or any episode or visit tinyurl. com slash sscpod. Without further ado, I'd like to introduce my special guest today, Jag. Jag, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Jag Lamba: 1:57

Tom, thanks for having me. I'm Jag, I'm the founder and CEO of Certa. Certa is a third party management platform, used by multiple Fortune 100 firms. Happy to, of course go into it more, but great to be here.

Tom Raftery: 2:10

Thank you. Do please go into it a little bit more, because that was quite high level.

Jag Lamba: 2:17

So, you know, Certa is, is a third party management platform that offers the full spectrum of compliance, risk, and ESG coverage globally, for all, you know, all types of third parties for large enterprises. So enterprises use Certa to manage third parties and you know, specifically the compliance risk and ESG of third parties globally in 42 languages. What's different about Certa? You know, there, there are other tools, but what's different about Certa is that it is truly a platform. So what we basically call it, every, all the modules are powered by the third party operating system. It's very personalizable. Number two, it is truly AI driven and AI first. So what that means is, you know, natural language is the way of communication for a lot of the platform, including configuration. And finally, it is proven and global. It is used by multiple Fortune 500 and multiple Fortune 100 firms, and it is used globally in, in, in, in 42 languages.

Tom Raftery: 3:33

Nice. Nice. And I guess gimme a bit of background and context. How long has Certa been in operation and why? I mean, what was the genesis of it? Did you wake up one morning and say, I know I should start a company and call it, and, and, okay, when, when did it kick off? Why and the name? Where did that come from?

Jag Lamba: 3:57

Yeah, so. You know, previously I was a consultant at McKinsey and, there I noticed just how hard it was for firms to work with each other. And it was shocking for me that I was taking, you know, three to six months for firms to get onboarded. And when I sort of started peeling the onion and digging deeper, I understood that there are multiple functions within the enterprise that you know, need to, you know, keep the firm safe from, you know, compliance and ESG and fraud and reputation, et cetera, et cetera. And it's the coordination across all these functions. And of course, you know, the specific automation within the functions that was, you know, taking the longest and being an engineer, you know, I kind of had a vision for, okay, I think I know how to fix it.

Tom Raftery: 4:54

Right.

Jag Lamba: 4:55

And that's what started the, you know, started the Certa. The, the, the, the reason why I was attracted to this field, Tom, is that, you know, originally I'm from India. When I moved to the United States, I noticed a, just a higher standard of, you know, if I might say ethics and labor laws and focus on sustainability that it was just incredible for me. And you know, with Certa, I'm able to take some of that goodness from these large firms and spread it globally. And of course, you know, sustainability is a, super important. You know, we may not be around for much longer, you know, if we don't solve that, but it kind of goes beyond it, right? You know, it goes into labor laws, it goes into ethics, it goes into, you know, equity and, and it was just, you know, I feel really fortunate to, to work on this really important and really I think, impactful problem in the world.

Tom Raftery: 5:57

Okay, so, and when did you start? How long is, how long has sort of been in operation?

Jag Lamba: 6:05

You know, we had, the first client going live, went live about six, a little over six years ago. That's when, you know, uh, you know, before that, you know, I tried a few angles on how to solve this problem. And ultimately, you know, you know, after some experimentation, the approach of building a platform and this sort of, you know, no-code AI enabled, no-code finally like fit and finally resonated with clients. So that's when, you know, that's what started the journey. That journey started about a little over six years ago.

Tom Raftery: 6:40

Okay. And. What is it that you solve for your customers?

Jag Lamba: 6:49

The, you know, the, the problem is companies have tens of thousands of third parties that they work with globally, right? These third parties, you know, pose multiple risks to the company. Like for example, compliance risks, InfoSec, privacy, regulatory, you know, sustainability, reputation, et cetera. Right now, these risks, if these risks are not managed adequately, even one of those tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of third parties could have catastrophic impact. We've seen, you know, we've seen some of those examples, right? You know, hundreds of millions of dollars of fine, you know, the management of these companies being distracted, you know, board level discussions on, you know, caused by you know, not just like, you know, one data breach, but you know, a privacy issue or a governance issue, or a compliance issue, or a labor issue. And it's just, you know, I just feel like, you know, it's, it's such an important topic for, you know, it's a board level topic now at, at at large firms. So this is the problem that we are able to solve for clients. Clients are able to put a platform like Certa in place that basically solves not only solves the immediate, immediate pain points, right, which might be something related to anti-corruption, anti-bribery, and you know, AML, scope three emissions. So we are able, clients are able to put an initial platform in place with the confidence that the same platform can grow and cover the full spectrum of risks, the full spectrum of compliance and the full spectrum of ESG needs. And that's, you know, and the platform is global, truly global. So you can actually, vendors, you know, for example, from Japan can truly interact with the platform like it's a Japanese website. Yet they would have no English or, you know, German or Spanish they'd see anywhere. Right? It's a beautifully elegant global solution. And you know, it's not just the languages, it's also the business rules that are unique to each country and Certa's robust enough and proven enough, that we, you know, clients can go with the confidence that if a new regulation happens in China, or Japan, or you know, in Mexico, the, the platform will be able to accommodate that. They wouldn't need to start looking for another solution then. So that's the, the problem that we are able to solve, you know, the global supply chain at scale, multilingual with all the nuanced rules in every country with all the sustainability rules. It's the only platform and the most comprehensive platform, and the most robust platform for that.

Tom Raftery: 10:03

Okay, cool, and I'm glad you mentioned scope three emissions because they are particularly challenging. For most organizations, the Scope three emissions are around 90% of an organization's emissions. And you know, so you've got that 10%, which is your own, and that's relatively straightforward to manage and reduce, but measuring, managing, and reducing the scope three emissions because they're coming from your supply chain and your suppliers and your supplier suppliers and so on down along the line. It's gotta be far more challenging. How, how do you deal with that? Or how do your customers deal with that? You know, what's, what's, talk to me about that.

Jag Lamba: 10:50

It is, so it's, it's, you know, scope three emissions is so, such a hot topic right now. So, let's dig into it, right. So, like you had mentioned, you cannot make meaningful impact on your net zero goals and almost every organization, I think every organization is on the path to net zero, right?, you cannot make any meaningful progress without tackling scope three emissions.

Tom Raftery: 11:16

Yep.

Jag Lamba: 11:16

Moreover, regulators like, you know, the SEC, the European CSRD are explicitly asking for scope three emissions because that's, you know, I mean, regulators know this as well. Now, the way most clients estimate Scope three emissions today, it's truly via using industry standards and pure estimation, but what that means is it's really hard for a firm if you're just using, you know, sort of industry standards and just doing a rough calculation of your Scope three emissions, then you know, you don't know if the actions that you're taking are truly making progress.

Tom Raftery: 11:58

Sure.

Jag Lamba: 12:01

So to do that, you need to get primary data. You can't just rely on industry sort of estimations, right? So some of the forward looking clients, what they're doing is solving this using the 80 20 principle. So typically, you know, 70, 80% of your like scope three emissions are gonna come from your top like 500 to a thousand suppliers. Right. So that's where, you know, clients very smartly are, are starting. Let's solve this. Let's capture primary emissions data from our top, let's say 500 to a thousand suppliers, right? And we'll worry about the long tail later. The estimation for the long tail is fine, right? For now. Yeah, let's just estimate for the long tail and collect primary data from these suppliers. And that works really well, except that it's still a logistical nightmare, you know, to collect data every quarter or every year from your top, you know, 500, you know, thousand suppliers, you know, via spreadsheets because there are multiple layers to this data, right? Clients might need to collect, okay, you know, what are the products that you're supplying? Okay? Give us the individual components of this product. Okay? Where are you sourcing these individual components that are going into the product from? So there are multiple, it's a, you know, it's, it's a pretty complicated hierarchy you need to collect the data from. So it's a nightmare, to collect it via spreadsheets. So clients even to collect it from, you know, 500 to a thousand suppliers have these groups, you know, of people. And it's, you know, they need to spend, you know, a huge amount of money and logistical burden to, to complete this. And, you know. Their vendors need to do the same. And can you imagine the vendors need to do it across every client,

Tom Raftery: 13:53

Yeah.

Jag Lamba: 13:54

So it's, it's pretty bad. So what we allow, companies to do is put this initial program of collecting primary data from your top 500 to a thousand clients on autopilot. This is, you know what I've seen as, you know, state of the art today,

Tom Raftery: 14:16

Okay.

Jag Lamba: 14:17

This is what the most, advanced firms, you know, who are absolutely committed and investing in sustainable supply chains are doing, starting with collecting primary data from, you know, your, your, your most critical, your largest 500 to a thousand, suppliers.

Tom Raftery: 14:41

Interesting. Interesting. And in, I mean, we, we talked about ESG as well, you know, if, if I think about ESG, it's massively broad. And if I think about the likes of asset managers, how are they adapting their strategies to kind of better align with sustainability goals? And what role does technology play in that?

Jag Lamba: 15:06

Yeah, Tom, you know, so similar to the regulations like, you know, from the SEC for you know, in the US and European CSRD regulations, there are different regulations that are coming up specifically for asset managers. I mean, , if you can put sustainability in the flow of money, I think, I think it's a, it's a very smart way to create an impact. The regulators are realizing that, right. So the asset managers in the UK are subject to this regulations called, you know, SFDR, Sustainable Finance, disclosures. And there's a new regulation similarly for that's coming outta California, which basically is, you know, California has the largest economy in the US. It has, you know, pretty broad implications to all over US, right? So asset managers are also required to disclose to the people they raise money from. So what you know, you know what is called their limited partners, right, exactly what is the, the ESG impact of their investments? And you know, that's a pretty similar problem if you take a step back, right? So asset managers need to collect primary data about the ESG and you know, emissions impact from their investments, which could be, you know, hundreds of investments, which is pretty similar to like collecting data from your top a hundred suppliers, right? Or top 500 suppliers. So it's a very similar situation with asset managers. They, they need to collect primary data from their top, from all their actually portfolio companies, and, yeah. And that's basically, you know, the, you know, where the asset managers are going to. Asset managers are a bit further along that we've seen than enterprises in collecting this data because this regulation, at least the SFTR regulation has been, you know, in, in place since, I think, I believe it was last year when it came into effect. So, you know, you, you, you know, you need to do it. And you know, we, you know, we've, many incredible funds have invested in Certa as well, right? So we see that from the portfolio company side of things where we need to provide ESG data to the funds that have invested in Certa. Right. So it's, it's a pretty similar dynamic here and that's why, you know, we sort of, you know, I mean from, from Certa's perspective, we help asset managers in a very similar way to the way we help enterprises in collecting primary data from, you know, hundreds of suppliers or hundreds of portfolio companies.

Tom Raftery: 18:00

Interesting.

Jag Lamba: 18:01

but you can see this is like, this is going into every field, right? This is the future, you know, you know, no longer rough estimations, they're not gonna be sufficient because rough estimations will not tell you the impact of your actions.'cause you're using industry standards. So how is your CEO gonna know, you know? Okay, well all these actions that we took. Did it lead to lower emissions in the supply chain or not? You have to collect primary data for that. So, I mean, I think even though it is a logistical burden right now, technology is solving it. Techno and technology players like Certa, you know, stepping up. And it is, it is a, I mean, Tom, it is, it is a great thing for the world.

Tom Raftery: 18:52

Yeah, and I, I gotta think if asset managers are looking for this information, does that mean access to capital is easier and cheaper for companies who can provide this information?

Jag Lamba: 19:06

A hundred percent. So, you know, I mean, I have a lot of personal experience with this now. You know, having served a few asset managers and, you know, both our software is being used by asset managers, but also, you know, we are providing this primary data to our investors, right? So, you know, as a company looking for capital or, you know, has looked for capital in the past, if our ESG, and sustainability, if, if that wasn't a focus for us, we would be much more limited to the number of funds we could take money from, because work funds now have a threshold, minimum threshold for, you know, I mean data privacy, you know, sustainability, you know, labor laws and all that, right? And this is great stuff, you know, so I mean, what, what I love about this is not just that it actually creates good in the world, but also that it's, you know, the good investments are actually ones that are doing good in the world. So these things in business are actually pretty aligned. You know, folks, you know, companies and vendors that focus on sustainability and, you know, equity in their workplace, and, you know, all the, you know, sort of, you know, good, data privacy policies, et cetera. They are the ones who do well in the long term. So they are actually de-risking their investments or, you know, this de-risking their supply chain by actually focusing on this. So it's not just meeting a regulatory need. And, you know, doing good in the world, it's just good business. And that's actually what is our tagline. You know, in Certa we call it the mission of Certa is to enable firms to do good business.'cause good business is not different at all from sustainable businesses, it is the same thing. It's long term. It's if you focus on the long term, you will focus on sustainability. You will focus on labor laws, you will focus on data privacy. It's just good business.

Tom Raftery: 21:55

Sure, sure. And if I'm collecting, data from suppliers, how do I know that that's actual data, not just somebody filling in, copy and pasting stuff into a spreadsheet and going, yeah, this is, this is the primary data, honest,

Jag Lamba: 22:11

Yeah, I mean the data quality is, and quality checks we are still in early days of that. Right. So, most of the firms are basically enforcing this via contracts. So asking the vendors, they're asking the portfolio companies to attest that this data is correct, right? Obviously, that's not sufficient. So what some companies do is at least take a look across, you know, you can basically do some standard deviation, right? So if one of your suppliers or one of your companies is claiming a huge reduction in emissions, you know, which is maybe beyond the standard deviation, you know, out into, you know, either side, then you can at least say, okay, well, you know, this is something I need to dig into. You know, what are they doing? Are they, you know, so, so that's just a basic data quality data cleanup that I, I think everybody must do. Right, which is just, you know, looking at the deviations, you know, quarter on quarter, year on year or like, you know, looking at okay, benchmarks across the different suppliers. Like if one supplier is claiming a lot higher or lower than anyone else, what's going on there? Right. Or one company's claiming a higher, so similar, similar thing with the portfolio companies. But you can also look at how does that benchmarking across your suppliers compare to their ESG ratings. So their ESG ratings could be for example, we can look at ESG rating through EcoVadis, you know, from S&P and others, right? And if there is a significant, again, you know, incoherence between what the vendor's claiming and what you know what, what, let's say EcoVadis is saying, or then I think there's, again, you know, companies need to dig deeper. So the way companies are managing this is via case management. As you basically, you know, put some basic checks in place looking at, you know, standard rating agencies and looking at benchmarks across vendors and across portfolio companies. And then things that look odd you know, get flagged and they go into a case management flow and you dig deeper into that. That is today the state of the art in terms of data quality checks. Obviously this is a fast evolving area using AI, et cetera. A lot of companies are making progress there. We are as well. So watch this space. It's, it's an important space. Data is gonna get checked.

Tom Raftery: 24:47

Yeah.

Jag Lamba: 24:48

it is gonna get more accurate. But I'm, I'm, I'm really glad you know that companies are, are taking and, you know, going on this journey with companies like Certa.

Tom Raftery: 24:59

Cool, cool, cool. And you know, if I am a large company, what kind of factors should I take into account when choosing a platform like Certa?

Jag Lamba: 25:10

Yeah, so I think that, I mean, one, I think everybody understands that this is a fast evolving space. So, you know, when you're looking at, when, when companies are exploring platforms, I think the first thing that companies should look for is flexibility. Is this platform good for not only good for what I need today. But is it flexible enough as the world changes because it is the fastest growing or fastest changing area I think of any, any sort of discipline, in business, number two, pace of innovation. So, and, and companies can look at, evaluate that in two ways. One is, is this company, you know the vendor that they're evaluating, the platform that they're evaluating, are they mainly a, what have they innovated on over the last, let's say, you know, three quarters, four quarters? You know, what is their level of investment in artificial intelligence? Because it's clearly the future of not only this space, but every software space, every technology space. AI is the future, right? But also, you know, there are some platforms out there. No matter how much they invest in AI, their architecture isn't sort of modern enough and robust enough to incorporate AI. And so I think, I think, I think clients will need to involve their IT teams to really dig into the architecture and say, okay, are this, I know, I know this firm seems to be investing in innovation, but you know, I mean, if they have a technology stack that's like 15 years old, you know, you really can't do much, right? So that's number two. And the third thing I think that companies need to look for is that, is this, has this vendor or platform and company shown the commitment to client success in the past? Because this is, you know, being a fast, evolving space, you need huge level of like a very deep partnership and you need the two, you know, because things are evolving, things are changing, and you need this close partnership and you need the vendor's commitment as things change to react quickly and have my back as a client. And I think that level of commitment, you know, is this company gonna stand by me? Stand by me personally for my, and if you will, to make sure that I'm successful and my company is successful. I would say these are the three top things. you know, flexibility, base of innovation. And is this company gonna stand by me? Truly stand with me.

Tom Raftery: 28:00

Okay, cool. And you know, for companies who are embarking on this, how, how can they ensure that their supply chain partners align with their core values, particularly in sustainability and ethical practices.

Jag Lamba: 28:20

Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a great point that you, that you raised, Tom here, which is, which is the point about values, you know, this is what we are seeing across the supply chain. Earlier, it was good enough to find suppliers, you know, who were, you know, you know, if you will had, you know, like good pricing

Tom Raftery: 28:40

Mm-Hmm.

Jag Lamba: 28:41

and if they were sort of keeping up with the laws, right. They were, you know. have a, you know, good standing with, you know, all the regulatory bodies and, you know, if you could run basic compliance checks. But I think the world has moved much beyond that right? Now, companies wanna do business with suppliers whose values aligned with theirs, right?

Tom Raftery: 29:02

Yeah.

Jag Lamba: 29:04

And. and, and I think again, you know, going back to the theme of, you know, doing good is actually good for business. you know, this is clearly good for business, right? I mean, that's the incentive here for, for companies to, to work with companies. They, they, you know, who, you know, whose values aligned with theirs. So, the, you know, just in the initial evaluation now, Tom, what we are seeing is companies, in addition to the InfoSec and privacy and, you know, sort of the, you know, the, the, the, you know, anti-corruption checks and all that, companies putting some of these sustainability questionnaires front and center, and that's become a, a very important criteria in, in getting business and evaluating who to give business to. So I think, for example, there was a recent survey, and I'll try to dig it up where it said a pretty high percentage of clients, I think it was like higher than 40% that are act actively rejected vendors or disqualified vendors, because of insufficient ESG standards. So it is becoming a real criteria like anything else. Right. So it, it's, it's a part of the criteria. It's, it's, it's gonna remain you know, more and more important. What, what, what I, what I really love is, you know, consumers are reacting faster than companies in this case, right? So consumer preferences are changing clearly towards more sustainable retailers and more sustainable grocers and all that. Right? And, and, you know, all these companies are really touting their sustainability benefits, like, you know, companies like Unilever, et cetera. Right? I think the same thing is now happening in B2B. It's, it's, it's not just good business, but actually you can create a, a, a competitive differentiator. Suppliers can create a competitive differentiator by being more. ESG compliant and friendly and, and, and forward leaning on those. So, you know, I love, love this change that's happening. You know, I think it's becoming a part of the evaluation for supplier selection. It is certainly, an attribute of which companies clients will give more business to, even from their existing suppliers. So I I love this. I'm a if it's not obvious. Yeah. I'm, I'm a huge fan of this change in the world.

Tom Raftery: 31:39

Yeah, likewise. Likewise. And you know what would be flipping this around, what would be kind of common pitfalls companies might face when integrating sustainability into their supply chains and how would they overcome them?

Jag Lamba: 31:56

Yeah, so I think the most common pitfalls that I've seen is aligning these all the way to the top. So for example, what happens often is that companies get some vague direction from their board saying sustainable supply chains are important. but the, to put this in practice, you need to break it up into phases. And, you know, companies that try to do too much at once, I see fail often. And companies that are not ambitious enough, you know, aren't able to generate the excitement within the enterprise and, you know, sort of, you know, show the commitment clearly across different functions within the company to make sure that this is happening. Right. So it's the common, I mean, I think the, the best implementations that I've seen, Tom, of this are companies that are able to create a great strategic narrative and, and, and a vision for this is the way we want sustainable supply chain. So this is the way we want to be in, let's say, you know, 10 to 15 years, whatever, right? Long term. But these are the, these are the three initiatives that we are gonna crush this year and next year.

Tom Raftery: 33:17

Okay.

Jag Lamba: 33:17

So having a good mix of both the vision and near term priorities, you know, works anything different than that. So, for example, if you create like a five year plan. Those aren't really, because this world is so dynamic, this area is so dynamic I don't think those work. So I think I really love this, this sort of narrative, great narrative, great vision. Let's rally the company around it. And then these are the three initiatives that we must accomplish this year. And typically those initiatives are depending on where the company is in the maturity of their, you know, sustainable supply chain. So if you're not doing accurate measurement, let's do accurate measurement of your scope Three emissions. If you're doing accurate measurement, let's start getting primary data. If you're collecting primary data, let's make sure that we are able to do it in a you know, in, in a more accurate manner, you know, a more efficient manner, you know, let's make it easier for our suppliers to provide this data. So it's a journey, it's a, you know, it's a maturity spectrum, if you will right of sustainable supply chains. And I think, I think companies need to look at it in terms of moving along and taking steps in the near term along that maturity spectrum.

Tom Raftery: 34:37

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Where to from here? I mean, you said it's a, a rapidly evolving space, which it is. I've, I've seen that myself in the last few years that the changes I've seen have been phenomenal. Amazing. What's coming down the line in the next let, let, let's not go out as far as five years, but let's say next year, 2, 3, 4 years.

Jag Lamba: 35:00

Yeah. I mean, like most evolving spaces, you know, there's gonna be, you know, progress will happen, you know, not in a straight line, but you know, like a little up and down, right? always does, right? And, and, and, so, you know, I, I, I see, companies committing to this, but at the same time, facing logistical problems in implementing across supply chain. It's hard enough, Tom, to implement stuff within the firm. It's much harder to implement stuff within your and within your supply chain, right? So the only way to do that would be, you know, technology solutions, and a combination of technology solutions and a clear vision and mandate, you know, from the company to all its suppliers. Right? I think, there is, I mean, the regulators are coming after it. So there is, over the next two years, companies will need to make a choice whether they want to be leaders or, you know, in the middle of the pack or laggards in this, in this area. So leaders will they'll be able to differentiate themselves competitively. Like this is an area where there's still room for differentiation, a huge room for differentiation. So I think, I think competitive differentiation is totally possible. And, and the investments, the ROI is there on trying to be a leader in this space. Obviously it's harder, right? You know, most folks are gonna be in the middle of the pack. The laggards are gonna feel a ton of pain. they're gonna see declining customer demand, they're gonna see, you know, they, you know, they're, you know, . I think it's, it's just gonna be, it's just gonna be a lot of, a lot of pain for the laggards. So I think I would encourage, you know, of course, you know, if, if you have management buy-in, in your company, I would encourage, you know, you know, sort of listeners to, to be more on the cutting edge of things. It's an exciting areas and you know your, your kids will thank you kids and grandkids,

Tom Raftery: 37:17

Yeah.

Jag Lamba: 37:18

You wanna tell your grits and grandkids that I was there in this fight. You know, I led the way.

Tom Raftery: 37:24

Nice. Yeah. Yeah. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Jag. Is there any question I didn't ask that you wish I did, or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to think about? I.

Jag Lamba: 37:39

I think most folks, you know, most companies I talk to haven't, fully and it's hard to do realize the ROI of, you know, this initiative. I believe the ROI is really high, just because of, you know, the you know, being on the forefront of sustainable supply chains enables companies to mean like we talked, right? You know, have, you know, have a competitive advantage, with know, with their customers, have access to better talent because know, company, you people wanna work in companies that are, you know, more sustainable, more aligned with their values, right? And, and, and will have a access to more finance options. And, you know, what that translates to typically is, is, is better financing terms. So you lower lower cost of capital.

Tom Raftery: 38:36

Yeah.

Jag Lamba: 38:37

So I think the ROI is overwhelmingly positive. Now, the, the sentiment, you know, in the US goes up and down with ESG because of politics and stuff, but this is an unstoppable wave. Like customers are demanding it, it's, you know, it's just gonna happen.

Tom Raftery: 38:53

Yeah.

Jag Lamba: 38:53

So yeah, I'm, I'm, you know, I think this is this, you know, this is the, there it's very positive, you know, high ROI. So, I'm really looking forward to to, to, to this next wave and, and, and, you know, playing our part of it.

Tom Raftery: 39:10

Fantastic. Fantastic. Jag, that's been really interesting. If people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Jag Lamba: 39:21

Yeah, so the, the, the, the, the company website is certa.ai, so C-E-R-T-A, Certa, like certain, certa.ai. And you know, I am active on LinkedIn, so I am J lamba, J-L-A-M-B-A on LinkedIn. And of course, you know, if you just want to email me, it's Jag, J A G, like short for Jaguar, jag@Certa.ai.

Tom Raftery: 39:49

Fantastic. Fantastic, Jag, that's been really interesting. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Jag Lamba: 39:55

Thanks for having me, Tom. It's great talking to you.

Tom Raftery: 39:59

Okay, thank you all for tuning in to this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Each week, thousands of supply chain professionals listen to this show. If you or your organization want to connect with this dedicated audience, consider becoming a sponsor. You can opt for exclusive episode branding where you choose the guests or a personalized 30 second ad roll. It's a unique opportunity to reach industry experts and influencers. For more details, hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn, or drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com. Together, let's shape the future of sustainable supply chains. Thanks. Catch you all next time.